The Story About Sorenson And ZVRS
I wanted to write this blog in regards to VRS Abuse, Fraud and Greedy. Why? I want to speak out and make it some clarification and provide facts. I believe in assisting others with facts.
DISCLAIMER: I am not liable for anything which such as any errors, typos, misleading information or anything and the PDF was provided for your reading and the information was found through Google and that is where I found them and print the pages in PDF.
I just wanted to help educate you and provide facts and answers about VRS abuse and fraud. Below may help you understand the difference between the word abuse, fraud and greedy. Not everyone has a clear understanding of the three word meanings and want to make it clear to you the difference. The meanings below:
abuse
1. to use wrongly or improperly;
2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, of offensive way: to abuse ahorse; to
3. to speak insultingly, harshly,
4. to commit sexual assault upon.
5. Obsolete . to deceive or
noun
6. wrong or improper use; misuse:
7. harshly or coarsely insulting
8. bad or improper treatment;
9. corrupt or improper practice
fraud
1. deceit, trickery, sharp
2. a particular instance of such
3. any deception, trickery, or
4. a person who makes deceitful
The meaning above shows vast difference between abuse and fraud. I wanted to be clear and help you understand the difference. No more confusions, cover ups, or lying. NOTHING!
Now, for the one other important word: Greedy. What that does mean?
greedy
1. excessively or inordinately
2. having a strong or great
3. keenly desirous; eager (often
This is the clear meaning of the word, greedy.
Story about ZVRS Offer Free Z-20 By Porting Your Number From Sorenson
For past few months, as many of you are aware, many VRS customers decide to choose to port their own phone numbers to different VRS providers to test the waters and see for yourself. But did you know the results and what really happened to these customers? The video says it all. I do not endorse or support this. I wanted you to be the judge and see with your own eyes.
I like to share a story that happened to me. When I heard that Sorenson was planning to release new product, which was nTouchVP. I guess its overdue for them to have this new upgrade and improved VP for deaf customers. Until that happened, ZVRS knew that Sorenson would still be the largest VRS provider because of new technology that nTouchVP has. Soon afterwards, ZVRS decided to release their new Z-20 product for free if you port your Sorenson VP number however, they made it clear that you must give up your VP-200 if you authorize to sign a agreement with ZVRS and an installer will come to your location, take your VP-200 and ship it back to Sorenson. ZVRS will pay for the shipping.
For several weeks, even months, many customers had been porting to ZVRS to get the free Z-20 because, it would cost you $395 if you want to purchase it, yet it comes with your own new number. ZVRS decided to provide free Z-20 if you port from Sorenson. If you not aware, the Z-20 is basically their own brand model number. The product is owned by Cisco. You can see their website at:
- http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/ps11329/index.html (The product itself cost $1,500)
I did lot of research to see if it is within my rights and choice, but it is not. I was so upset because they violated my rights and they didn’t give me a choice due to forcing deaf customers to give up VP-200. I know all VRS Providers has no right to tell you what to do. I felt this is part of other new “incentive” to bump more minutes to make greedy money. If you are not aware, FCC already made it clear that incentive is not allowed.
If you want to read more about this author wrote three different blogs why Sorenson is desperate, see for yourself:
http://www.deafeyeseeit.com/
The author also wrote a blog about why the 10 phone number belongs to you not the VRS Providers:
http://www.deafeyeseeit.com/
The author wrote a blog and saying Sorenson is attacking ZVRS AGAIN!
http://www.deafeyeseeit.com/2011/12/02/sorenson-stinging-zvrs-again/
Story about ZVRS:
ZVRS is hearing owned, if you not know. The CEO himself, he is a nice guy but why hearing? Why not deaf? ZVRS has many deaf employees and that’s great but it’s still owned and operated by a hearing person. I rather they to be owned by deaf not hearing. This is not the way I want to see in VRS business. The investors is based in Boston and you can read the PDF report below. Why people in Boston is on the report and who are they?? I have nothing to lie about, this is fact.
Note that ZVRS made the “Code of Ethics” year ago or so, maybe? They made this to show they are a honest company. Do you buy the story? You decide. If you already know, ZVRS has been very aggressive with their new Z-20 and been marketing so hard to find Sorenson customers and port to ZVRS. I heard many people are not happy with ZVRS because they abused by stealing their phone numbers or clients or whatever you call it. If you want to find out, go and Google yourself.
Also, from other source, someone told me that ZVRS Reps went to SnapVRS’s Fan Page on Facebook and contact all these customers and stole lot of their customers by porting to ZVRS. Some did port back to SnapVRS.
Story about Sorenson:
If you not aware, as of recently October 2011, the VRS payout was almost $49 million to nine VRS Providers and if Sorenson is only 80% market of VRS, so put this way: Sorenson just got paid amount of $39 million. Then the left of the fund is almost $10 million and the eight remaining VRS providers get paid at least $1.25 million (I said APPROX or AVERAGE). So what this tells you? Sorenson is making so much money, yes that’s MONOPOLY! Even Greedy!!!
See the October TRS Payment Report in PDF and see for yourself.
If you want to know why Sorenson is so filthy rich, they are owned by an investor company based in Chicago. Want proof: I have some PDF you may want to read and see for yourself:
- Sorenson Communications $735 Million Debt (Reports by PrudentBear)
- Sorenson Communication Debt Reports (Reports by DebtWire.com)
- Madison Dearborn Investment (Found the website)
- Kirkl & Ellis LLP – $620 Million refinancing (Reports by found on investor company’s website)
- GTCR Loan – Sorenson $405 Million loan, $160 Million loan and six year $20 million revolver.
- Deaf customer wrote to FCC about Sorenson Monopoly and investor profit from all of us. (Wrote by Jon Ziev)
There is a website called VRSCA, it’s called Video Relay Service Consumer Association, this website is a site to educate and advocate to support VRS. But after a quick review two years ago, I discovered information that disgusted me. VRSCA is funded by Sorenson Communications. I thought all VRS Providers should be neutral and focus on VRS to provide communication needs. Guess what? VRSCA is biased because they got all funding from Sorenson.
Two years ago, I decided to do some research and something interesting came up. I found that Pat Nola, the CEO of Sorenson Communications himself is a rich filthy man and he made nearly $23 million a year compare to other VRS Providers CEO’s salary average at least $200,000 to $350,000. Why pay so much money of $23 million? Here’s why: From a valid source, Pat Nola himself has a very nice mansion/house somewhere in Salt Lake City and thanks to this website which is public information and found this, his house which was worth nearly $1.245 million in 2010 and is listed in his name. Until few days ago, I decided to do a review again, I was amazed that the report was updated and it removed the CEO’s name and replaced to different owner which is called Siruius Captial LLC. It seemed Pat didn’t want anyone to know his information or how much he owns or whatever. I did more research on Siruis Capitial LLC, only to discover it’s a private real estate company based in Germany. All the deaf people who use SorensonVRS is making themselves rich and then they can afford to buy fancy houses and more then sold to to Siruis Captial LLC so Pat Nola can make more profit, thanks to the Sorenson’s salary and investors.
Now, there was rumor that Sorenson is desperate by calling their former customers by offering iPad 2, Apple Computer Laptop, Flat TV and a brand new nTouchVP with priority installation date. But does that shows Sorenson is trying to incentive you? Since you know that FCC doesn’t allow any VRS Providers to do incentive to make money by luring customers. If this is the part of their new market tactics, then Sorenson violate FCC policy. If you feel you are being bribed, then report to FCC so they will know and open up a case and get it caught up! Stop being passive, speak up and be strong. Also, the rumors stated that the installers was being paid as much as $100 to $150 per customers if you port back. I have no proof but if you have proof, please show us and I will love to show to the world about this.
You can Google yourself and you will be shocked. There are facts out there ……
Now, what about SnapVRS? SprintVRS, AT&T VRS, and all other VRS Providers? Because I do not see any bashing, bad market, cheating, fraud or greedy as YET. Unless YOU have proof then show me. I don’t need take any lies. I want the truth, that is all I need.
Videos VLOG:
SorensonVRS Explains Customer porting issues: http://www.myvrs.org/blog/2011/12/sorenson-attacks-zvrs-videos/
Ryan Commerson about “Economic Power of VRS?” “http://www.myvrs.org/blog/
Why FCC Charged Viable more heavy than other VRS Providers? See this former Purple Employee says more about it, see it at http://youtu.be/FTiPhW2Bq44
The reason of porting problems with deaf customers:
- Mixed message with informed or conflict or dishonest to deaf customers
- All VRS Providers features are different and not same, each has its own system and provides to the deaf customers for their own pleasure use to place VRS calls and VP to VP calls.
- Any VRS Provider Installer come to your location to take any one of your videophones and return to the previous VRS Provider to replace to your new videophone. Also transfer your phone number without your approval or knowledge.
What does that tell you? Abuse? This is called Abuse. Greedy? They became greedy. They make more money by stealing you as a customer and they expect you to use their VRS service to create more minutes. They only care about money not customers, they don’t give a crap about you. The deep dark secrets is : MONEY!
If you want to research more all about this, I suggest you to read all information about “FCC” which can be found at:
You can read what the VRS rules, FCC News, VRS Providers News, FCC Certification News and many more all in one place so you won’t be lost. I am trying to make it simple and easier for everyone.
This may also interest you, if you not know, we have available all VRS monthly payouts as far back as 2008, and you can review all payouts information and shows how much VRS has been paid and all that. You can see it at:
http://www.myvrs.org/fcc-
To learn more about the “10 Digit Phone Number”, we have several pages you can read and learn more about it:
What is 10 Digit Phone number: http://www.myvrs.org/
What is Porting and the rules: http://www.myvrs.org/
Don’t you see? YOU are making them RICH but what it does benefit for you? NOTHING. You just get free VP, who cares!
Now, if you look at this very carefully, do you notice any deaf executives as a employee at SorensonVRS? ZVRS? SnapVRS? Purple? I see NONE. I mean true 100% deaf-owned employees like CEO, VP, Marketing and all that. Who is the only one VRS Provider has all of these: Convo Relay. All of the rest are owned by hearing people and investors. What does that shows you? They don’t want let deaf people to have a chance to experience entry level entry of executives because hearing want to make more money and thinks we are incapable to do and it’s not true. If you also look at the VRS market, 95% VRS providers are owned by hearing people. Why deaf people cannot own a company like Convo Relay?? These annoying hearing-owners are dirty, greedy, dishonest and knew we all are their money makers. This is unacceptable.
My final result: Get rid of hearing VRS owners and start focusing on deaf-owned company such as Convo Relay, Malka VRS, PowerVRS, Say-Hey VRS and name to few. Why would they still want to greed and trick you to make them being rich, they all just want to see money in their pockets. We had suffered enough so let’s focus and support deaf-owned business so they can invest back to the deaf community, why? If you start leaving the big companies, then the deaf-owned VRS business can be able to do few things such as:
- Provide you the top-notch ASL interpreters to meet your communication needs
- Provide Education Outreach program that allows the company to educate deaf youths to learn business level entry and empower them to the community.
- Invest back to the deaf community by support deaf events, deaf schools, deaf programs, deaf health and many more to provide access for the deaf people.
- User-friendly for the deaf people with state of line art technology to match deaf needs.
- Provide deaf employment and educate them for deaf community to work and make a good stable living.
Do you see hearing owned VRS company offers the benefit above? maybe 5% but not entirely.. See my point? They are trying to destroy us. We need to stand up and speak our opinion. Want to build our deaf community better and strong, how? Don’t use hearing companies anymore but use deaf-owned and support them. I don’t trust hearing VRS company anymore and it made me sick because they lied in front of our faces.
If you not realize, you do have POWER, how? If you see a VP remote, you can dial and use deaf owned VRS business but not hearing owned. Even better, DON’T use VRS at all and let them become desperate all they want and they will lose business by not making VRS minutes. That will teach them a lesson, that is for sure.
Lastly, I want to say to you all hearing owners: GET LOST, we had enough of your taking advantage of us (deaf people) and start respecting US and treat us like a real customer equal to a hearing customer! We can function as a leader, executive and more just like everyone else except we can’t hear.







FACTS:
ZVRS executives who are deaf:
Legal Counsel: Jeff Rosen
VP of Business Solutions: Chris Wagner
VP of Sales: Tim Rarus
VP of Marketing: Phil Bravin
ZVRS code of ethics:
http://zvrs.com/company/the-z/our-code-of-ethics
Your accusations of fraud are hurtful to all ZVRS employees. We all work hard to follow a strong code of ethics.
Can you explain how your continued allegations of fraud match the very definition of fraud you supplied in this blog post?
Port to ZVRS, get a Z20 at no cost to you. Port back. If you don’t want to pay the early termination fee, return the phone. No money has exchanged hands.
Why do you continue to allege fraud where there is none?
Comment by vrsengineer on December 16, 2011 at 11:21 am
You have my big thumb on your amazing research. That gonna be on my twitter! BTW, I’m use Hamilton TRS at most of time.
Comment by Sam the Deaf on December 16, 2011 at 12:16 pm
While I agree that it is good to have deaf owned companies, but it is also healthy to have competition. Granted, I likely dislike Sorenson more than you do, but I would not be so harsh on ZVRS. The fact is that they do have deaf executives. I am a firm believer in collaboration between deaf and hearing people and ZVRS is doing just that and that is the biggest reason why I am a supporter of them. I am also a supporter of Convo as well. Your should do some further research to see who the shareholders of ZVRS is, as its my understanding that CSD is a significant shareholder in there.
If we all try to delete hearing people all the way, it will make things significantly harder. I am not saying that deaf people cannot do anything on their own, because they absolutely can. But the fact is that we live in a hearing dominated world and if we can get hearing people as our allies, it will open significantly more doors.
Comment by Want cheese with your whine again? on December 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm
VRSEngineer,
they may be deaf as executive but they do not treat Sales Managers and ZCs fairly. Sales Managers and ZCs are the front line of ZVRS while those executives are behind their desks getting paid more. If it were not for Sales Managers and ZCs, the executives would not have a living income. The executives keep changing incentive earnings every new quarter comes up. No guaranteed stability for Sales Managers and ZCs to have guaranteed and stabilized income for the sales they have sold to customers. Yet the executives get stabilized income, kiss my rear end.
Thanks!
Comment by admin on December 16, 2011 at 1:00 pm
Comments:
1.) Yup, there are deaf execs at ZVRS. Visit the HQ sometime…when I visited a few years ago…I counted more deaf people than hearing people by a wide margin.
2.) ZVRS is still partially deaf owned, I believe (that is if CSD still owns some of ZVRS).
3.) The Z-20 is being sold to the public for $1,500. I am thinking that if ZVRS is buying them in bulk..they are at least speding close to $1,000 per unit…and then they are porting VP-200 numbers to it. It is a BIG gamble because profit per minute of a VRS call is around $2 roughly…meaning ZVRS needs their new ex-Sorenson customers to make 500 minutes in calls to recoup all costs…and those costs don’t include shipping, paying the installer, and etc… It isn’t greedy..it’s a business gamble…it is giving customers incentives to try something NEW other than their VP-200′s.
4.) You seem to have some sort of a personal vendetta against ZVRS? It is not something I would want to have if I wanted to run a 100% unbiased “VRS Industry” blog. Just saying…
5.) Last, but not least…I am an ex-ZVRS installer…and I was fairly compenstated for the hours I worked. The pay could always be better, but the per hour dollars were higher than you might find for an employee of Best Buy’s Geek Squad (comparable job). The issue with being an installer is that it is not a 40 hour a week gig most of the time..hence the flucations in pay.
Comment by J.J. on December 16, 2011 at 3:43 pm
I do not consider SorensonVRS a monopoly company, just brilliant, creative and gives out free product to use their service, which is free; makes sense to me.
Does Comcast give you free box and remote to use their services for free or add charges?
Does Yahoo give us free computer and monitor in order to use their email and internet access? No. They do charge for upgrade on yahoo mail.
Does DVD companies give us a DVD player for free in order to purchase their DVD for a couple years?
Do ALL cell phone give you free cell phones in order to use their service FOR FREE? No. Users need to sign a two years contract and pay a monthly fee to use their services.
Sorenson gives us a great deal. In order to use a free relay service, they give us equipment to access the services for free.
I do not know about other VRS companies as they have not replied to my email. A couple of VRS companies have not replied to me in over two years.
They have the biggest share because they give free products and the early bird gets the worm.
~BBF
My thoughts only.
Comment by BigBenFactor on December 16, 2011 at 5:26 pm
J.J., I was a former ZVRS sales/installer. To answer to your lists, I do not agree with all of them. You and I can agree to disagree. Number 3–bad ROI (Return of Investment) on ZVRS part. It will take a while for the minutes to kick in to be able to recoup the funds back to black tapes opposed to being in red. It also caused ZCs and Sales Manager to lose on incentive commission changes on quarterly basis for each Z20 were sold. I remembered when Z20 came out, the commission was HUGE–now? ZCs lost a bit more than 1/2 of that commission for the sales of Z20. No stability or guarantee to keep it flat-rate commission incentives for Sales Managers and ZCs. ZVRS executive board do not or did not think twice about those commission incentive plans. Why? From my experience after seeing what Sales Managers have had to go through–it’s about executive board getting stable pay as well as tech support and customer support team. Executive Board forgot that Sales Managers and ZCs are their source of income next to customers. Without Sales Managers and ZCs, there would be NO customers.
In response to #4, JJ, it is up to the decision of the myvrs.org founder to take chances and/or risks. However, the founder is LLC based company. Therefore, the founder is already ready and armed with this decision. Otherwise, the founder would not have posted this information and/or knowledge for deaf community to know. The objective to this: we, the deaf community, need someone like this founder to speak up and give us hope by giving us motivation to empower ourselves to choose which VRS provider we want to use. Least, but not without an important thought: we, the deaf community, can decide to agree to disagree with the founder’s “biased/unbiased” blog. The goal out of the founder’s number one objective: encourage us, the deaf community, to EMPOWER ourselves instead of being in the back seat of the vehicle not seeing what’s in front of us.
In response to BigBenFactor, SorensonVRS is a monopoly company. I have a good friend of mine who was a former Sorenson employee. Now works for Purple. He was and still is disgusted with how SorensonVRS is run as a company. One word that summed up in his discussion–AUDISM! He told me that I have to research SorensonVRS more, the more I know about them–I will agree with him. Well, the more I researched the company–the more I became disgusted. Oh, boy!
To make this interesting in the conversation, I decided to make the decision and send back 2 VP-200s with RMA by calling Sorenson. I got blocked. Instead, I tried to e-mail them. After 3 attempts, I heard nothing from them. My wife and I decided to threaten them with the 4th attempt–it’s either response or we’ll throw VP-200s in the trash and have Waste Management crush them for us. Within 24 hours, they immediately responded and gave us RMA label. My wife and I packed up those VP-200s and sent them off. Today, my wife and I called ZVRS to send back Z-Ojo and Z340. Know what the tech support and customer support both said? Oh, it is your phone to keep. My eyes light up–that means what? THROW’EM BOTH in the garbage! My wife and I cannot wait. We both decided to empower ourselves by going DIGITAL FREE–no stand alone VPs are allowed in our house. Why waste $$$ on electric bill that we do not use? We already have CPU with webcam, laptop with built-in webcam and mobile phones to use VP. We are content we made the right decision. Until then, myvrs.org founder–keep doing what you do and don’t give up the mission!
Comment by Just Be Me on December 17, 2011 at 2:22 pm
Your response to VRSengineer? That’s how it is all over with any corporate companies. And I know for a fact the executives at Z work hard. 2. The agreement you sign for the Z20 does NOT violate your rights. 3. The 2 previously deaf owned companies?? Viable. B&B. They got busted for running up minutes. Includes jail time. Etc. 4. Why should deaf people get everything free all the time? Hearing people do not get free cellphones. Now let’s think about this a minute—a deaf person does NOT need a landline phone in their home. They have a videophone! Do they pay for their phone calls? NO! Do they pay for their long distance calls? NO! But yet, hearing people do. Why should deaf people always be getting free stuff?
You need to get more information and facts. ZVRS has the most top-notch interpreters in the industry. For example-Sorenson hires certified interpreters–you can be certified by your state and be qualified to work at Sorenson. Ceritified—being able to communicate between 2 parties. Heck I could be certified and I’m hearing impaired with a hearing aid. Z—hires ONLY NATIONALLY CERTIFIED interpreters.
As for owning the products. Sorenson owns their videophones. The iPads2. The HDTV. Have a Z VP? YOU own it because you “purchased” it, whether via a porting incentive or with your own money.
Do some more research……
Comment by TheTruth on December 24, 2011 at 8:10 am
ps as much as I love sharing infomation and facts, I won’t be sharing this one because there is a lot of misinformation in this-for example ZVRS do have deaf executive. Hard working ones. Every company out there do have corporate executives.
Comment by TheTruth on December 24, 2011 at 8:12 am
BigBenFactor,
You forgot one tiny little fact that is the biggest reason, You as a deaf may get the service for free, Sorenson gets the money from FCC/TRS fund. soo its not free at all!
FCC has mandated the interoperability issue for years, what does that mean? it means ALL VP must be able to communicate with any VP, Sorenson has blocked that and IGNORING FCC’s rule,
How did Sorenson do that?? they hire very expensive lawyers to cover FCC eyes with wool ! or other way to say it… they have lawyers to throw herring over the trail to confuse FCC.
Sorenson is not in the business to HELP Deaf community like they claim to do, All they really care is MONEY…
Remember when FCC threaten they will cut the rates and Sorenson CLAIM it will be shut down.. LOOK ,, What did Sorenson do?? they LAID DEAF PEOPLE OFF, and Closed 2 call centers and Let interpreters GO. BUT Investors and Executives did NOT change their salary..
Comment by Sorenson Sucks on December 24, 2011 at 8:21 am
Joseph,
Why do you point out that the CEO of ZVRS is hearing but fail to make the same comment on the CEO of Sorenson VRS? They are both hearing!
ZVRS has more deaf VP’s than any other company and the deaf employees make up 80% of the company. I know many people who work for ZVRS both hearing, deaf and everything in between. Why do you want to isolate yourself and be deaf only? That is insane. There are many hardworking and wonderful hearing people out there who are always eager to help the deaf community. Are you saying we should slap them in the face and refuse their help? Sorry but I think this is more hurtful towards the deaf community in general. I am HoH/Deaf myself and I love the interactions I have with both deaf and hearing people. My focus is on the company and the work.
You continue to claim that ZVRS is doing something bad by porting people from their VP-200 or NVP for the Z20. They are doing NOTHING wrong. They are giving customers a choice. They spell out those choices VERY CLEARLY. A customer can’t say they didn’t know the VP-200 would be shipped back because it is stated to them at LEAST four times before the appointment for a ZC is setup. When that final appointment is setup, the scheduler makes sure the customer understands they will be shipping the VP-200 back to Sorenson. This is why I find the Sorenson Porting videos so full of shit. They lied and they are so blatantly obvious about it, but deaf people continue to believe them. It is disgusting.
Here are some suggestions for things I think you should focus on.
Why the VRS industry STILL does not have automatic porting process. All the VRS providers can’t agree on a method for automatic porting. Cell Phone manufacturers like ATT and Sprint have this capability and they have all this worked out. Why is VRS industry still behind the times? This two week porting process hurts deaf people because it allows VRS companies to BLOCK each other and all the other crap they pull. As an employee of ZVRS, I see on a daily basis how Sorenson is blocking customers from ZVRS, preventing “win-backs” and blocking dial-arounds… all the things that violate the FCC regs and they continue to get away with it.
Force Sorenson to give up the 866 numbers as mandated by FCC. They continue to allow the 866 numbers on their private database and blatantly ignore FCC rules regarding all numbers registering in neustar. Can you imagine the outcry if Sprint pull this crap with ATT or other cell phone providers? FCC would step in and fine violators. Why are violators like Sorenson allowed to continue their crap without penalty?
Ntouch Mobile interoperability…. need I say more? More blatant abuse of FCC regs regarding interoperability. Imagine the outcry if Evo Phones were blocked from being able to call an opposing cell company.
Comment by More_Fraud on February 19, 2012 at 12:16 am